to Scott, Bullseye-L
			 More options	  Oct 9
			 I have a 45 that shot bull's-eye before, with iron
sights just fine, with
200 grain cast over 2.6 bull's-eye. I slide mounted a red dot, now it will
not cycle reliably, should I lighten the spring?

PK

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
					
					Norm Glitz 	
					 to Bullseye-L
						 More options	  Oct 9
						 2.6 grains of Bullseye is
extremely light for a 45.  Is it possible you
meant 3.6?  Even that's on the light end of typical loads.  Most people
settle in from 3.8 to 4.5 or so.  Try a bit more powder first, and then a
lighter spring.  I'd suggest a 12 pound rated spring with a slide mounted
scope and a load of 3.8 grains of Bullseye or Clays.

Norm
- Show quoted text -

>-----Original Message-----
>From: bullseye-l-bounces+nglitz=verizon.net@lists.lava.net
>[mailto:bullseye-l-bounces+nglitz=verizon.net@lists.lava.net]On Behalf
>Of PK
>
>I have a 45 that shot bull's-eye before, with iron sights just fine, with
>200 grain cast over 2.6 bull's-eye. I slide mounted a red dot, now it will
>not cycle reliably, should I lighten the spring?
>
>PK

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
					Jack H 	
					 to
Bullseye-L
	 More options	  Oct 9
	 Do you mean 2.6 BE really?
	 
	 I used to use 3.4gr BE with LSWC when iron sights ruled.
	 Now with an Ultradot I use 3.9gr with 185, and 3.8gr with
	 200gr LSWC.  I have no idea what spring Roddy has in there.
	  Both loads are about minimum for the spring.  How does
	  the200 load do at 50?  Well it gets there, often in the
	  9-10 rings.   Jack H
	  - Show quoted text -
	  
	  
	  
	  --- PK <2deep@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
	  
	  > I have a 45 that shot bull's-eye before, with iron sights
	  > just fine, with
	  > 200 grain cast over 2.6 bull's-eye. I slide mounted a red
	  > dot, now it will
	  > not cycle reliably, should I lighten the spring?
	  >
	  > PK
	  >
	  > -

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
					
					Ed Masaki 	
					to Norm, Bullseye-L
						 More options	  Oct 9
						 
						 
						 2.6 grains of Bullseye is
extremely light for a 45.  Is it possible you
meant 3.6?  Even that's on the light end of typical loads.  Most people
settle in from 3.8 to 4.5 or so.  Try a bit more powder first, and then
a lighter spring.  I'd suggest a 12 pound rated spring with a slide
mounted scope and a load of 3.8 grains of Bullseye or Clays.
Norm

       THAT'S A GOOD ADVICE.  BRING UP YOUR CHARGE BEFORE GOING TO A
       LOWER SPRING.  A LOWER
       SPRING WILL GIVE YOU MORE TROUBLES LIKE NOT CLOSING THE SLIDE GOOD,
       STRIPPING THE ROUND FROM
       THE MAGAZINE,  OR VERTICAL STRINGING.         ED M.
       - Show quoted text -
       

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
					
					NSK Co. 	
					to PK, Bullseye-L
						 More options	  Oct 10
						 At 10:54 PM 10/9/2006, PK
wrote:
>I have a 45 that shot bull's-eye before, with iron sights just fine, with
>200 grain cast over 2.6 bull's-eye. I slide mounted a red dot, now it will
>not cycle reliably, should I lighten the spring?
>
>PK

PK

Now don't take this the wrong way, but why don't you try adding some
gunpowder to the cartridge case?????  2.6 grains of BE, and you don't
understand why you are having cycling problems?  Most shooters are
using somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.6 - 4.2 grs of BE.

The answer you seek, is not in the recoil spring.  It is the lack of energy.




Just for fun, I loaded 10 cases with 2.6 grs of BE, shot the rounds
in my barrel tester; with a known good Kart barrel.  The load shot a
10" pattern at 50 yards.  It appeared that it was not hot enough to
allow the bullet to stabilize at 50 yards.  Are you sure about the
2.6 grs of BE?

Regards,
Neil
NSK Co
410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
http://www.nsksales.com
- Show quoted text -
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
					
					tim copley 	
					to NSK, PK, Bullseye-L
						 More options	  Oct 10
						 So actually it was 3.6
grains.  I wondered why joe was giving me
weird looks.  Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly said
2.6.  However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
no dice...

We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither worked.  I'm not sure
what to do at this point.  About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
stove pipes..

Any advice would be appreciated!

TimC
phx,az

The original question
- Show quoted text -
On 10/10/06, NSK Co.  wrote:
> At 10:54 PM 10/9/2006, PK wrote:
> >I have a 45 that shot bull's-eye before, with iron sights just fine, with
> >200 grain cast over 2.6 bull's-eye. I slide mounted a red dot, now it
will
> >not cycle reliably, should I lighten the spring?
> >
> >PK
>
> PK
>
> Now don't take this the wrong way, but why don't you try adding some
> gunpowder to the cartridge case?????  2.6 grains of BE, and you don't
> understand why you are having cycling problems?  Most shooters are
> using somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.6 - 4.2 grs of BE.
>
> The answer you seek, is not in the recoil spring.  It is the lack of
energy.
>
> 
> 
>
> Just for fun, I loaded 10 cases with 2.6 grs of BE, shot the rounds
> in my barrel tester; with a known good Kart barrel.  The load shot a
> 10" pattern at 50 yards.  It appeared that it was not hot enough to
> allow the bullet to stabilize at 50 yards.  Are you sure about the
> 2.6 grs of BE?
>
> Regards,
> Neil
> NSK Co
> 410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
> mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
> http://www.nsksales.com
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
					Mark Wilkinson 	
					to me
						 More options	  Oct 10
						 You should have said all of
that before.
 
 THEN YOU ARE LIMP WRISTING THE PISTOL.
  
  Mark Wilkinson
  
  tim copley  wrote:
  
      So actually it was 3.6 grains. I wondered why joe was giving me
          weird looks. Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly
said
    2.6. However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
        We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
            no dice...
            
                We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither worked. I'm not
sure
    what to do at this point. About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
        stove pipes..
        
            Any advice would be appreciated!
            
                TimC
                    phx,az
                    
                        The original question
                            On 10/10/06, NSK Co. wrote:
                                > At 10:54 PM 10/9/2006, PK wrote:
                                    > >I have a 45 that shot bull's-eye
before, with iron sights just fine, with
    > >200 grain cast over 2.6 bull's-eye. I slide mounted a red dot, now it
will
    > >not cycle reliably, should I lighten the spring?
        > >
            > >PK
                >
                    > PK
                        >
                            > Now don't take this the wrong way, but why
don't you try adding some
    > gunpowder to the cartridge case????? 2.6 grains of BE, and you don't
        > understand why you are having cycling problems? Most shooters are
            > using somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.6 - 4.2 grs of BE.
                >
                    > The answer you seek, is not in the recoil spring. It
is the lack of energy.
    >
        >
            >
                >
                    - Show quoted text -
                    
                        > Just for fun, I loaded 10 cases with 2.6 grs of
BE, shot the rounds
    > in my barrel tester; with a known good Kart barrel. The load shot a
        > 10" pattern at 50 yards. It appeared that it was not hot enough to
            > allow the bullet to stabilize at 50 yards. Are you sure about
the
    > 2.6 grs of BE?
        >
            > Regards,
                > Neil
                    > NSK Co
                        > 410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
                            > mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
                                > http://www.nsksales.com
                                    >
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
					
					tim copley 	
					to Mark
						 More options	  Oct 10
						 huh?  Not sure how not
having a firm wrist would cause
stove pipes?
- Show quoted text -


On 10/10/06, Mark Wilkinson  wrote:
> You should have said all of that before.
>
> THEN YOU ARE LIMP WRISTING THE PISTOL.
>
> Mark Wilkinson
>
> tim copley  wrote:
> So actually it was 3.6 grains. I wondered why joe was giving me
> weird looks. Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly said
> 2.6. However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
> We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
> no dice...
>
> We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither worked. I'm not sure
> what to do at this point. About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
> stove pipes..
>
> Any advice would be appreciated!
>
> TimC
> phx,az
>
> The original question
> On 10/10/06, NSK Co. wrote:
> > At 10:54 PM 10/9/2006, PK wrote:
> > >I have a 45 that shot bull's-eye before, with iron sights just fine,
with
> > >200 grain cast over 2.6 bull's-eye. I slide mounted a red dot, now it
> will
> > >not cycle reliably, should I lighten the spring?
> > >
> > >PK
> >
> > PK
> >
> > Now don't take this the wrong way, but why don't you try adding some
> > gunpowder to the cartridge case????? 2.6 grains of BE, and you don't
> > understand why you are having cycling problems? Most shooters are
> > using somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.6 - 4.2 grs of BE.
> >
> > The answer you seek, is not in the recoil spring. It is the lack of
> energy.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> > Just for fun, I loaded 10 cases with 2.6 grs of BE, shot the rounds
> > in my barrel tester; with a known good Kart barrel. The load shot a
> > 10" pattern at 50 yards. It appeared that it was not hot enough to
> > allow the bullet to stabilize at 50 yards. Are you sure about the
> > 2.6 grs of BE?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Neil
> > NSK Co
> > 410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
> > mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
> > http://www.nsksales.com
> >
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
					tim copley 	
					to Joseph
						 More options	  Oct 10
						 Who the heck is this guy?
						 
						 On 10/10/06, Mark Wilkinson
 wrote:
- Show quoted text -
> You should have said all of that before.
>
> THEN YOU ARE LIMP WRISTING THE PISTOL.
>
> Mark Wilkinson
>
> tim copley  wrote:
> So actually it was 3.6 grains. I wondered why joe was giving me
> weird looks. Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly said
> 2.6. However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
> We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
> no dice...
>
> We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither worked. I'm not sure
> what to do at this point. About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
> stove pipes..
>
> Any advice would be appreciated!
>
> TimC
> phx,az
>
> The original question
> On 10/10/06, NSK Co. wrote:
> > At 10:54 PM 10/9/2006, PK wrote:
> > >I have a 45 that shot bull's-eye before, with iron sights just fine,
with
> > >200 grain cast over 2.6 bull's-eye. I slide mounted a red dot, now it
> will
> > >not cycle reliably, should I lighten the spring?
> > >
> > >PK
> >
> > PK
> >
> > Now don't take this the wrong way, but why don't you try adding some
> > gunpowder to the cartridge case????? 2.6 grains of BE, and you don't
> > understand why you are having cycling problems? Most shooters are
> > using somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.6 - 4.2 grs of BE.
> >
> > The answer you seek, is not in the recoil spring. It is the lack of
> energy.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> > Just for fun, I loaded 10 cases with 2.6 grs of BE, shot the rounds
> > in my barrel tester; with a known good Kart barrel. The load shot a
> > 10" pattern at 50 yards. It appeared that it was not hot enough to
> > allow the bullet to stabilize at 50 yards. Are you sure about the
> > 2.6 grs of BE?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Neil
> > NSK Co
> > 410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
> > mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
> > http://www.nsksales.com
> >
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
					
					Mark Wilkinson 	
					to me
						 More options	  Oct 10
						 A limp wrist will have a
dramatic effect on how the pistol operates. A limp wrist does not allow the
spring to work properly. Trust me, a 10# spring is even too light for 4.0
grains of BE. EXCEPT OF THE GUN IS NEW AND VERY TIGHT. If the gun will not
function with those two items either of 2 things are happening (based on
what you are saying that the gun used to function):
1. It is not properly oiled or very dirty.
2. You are limp wristing.
 
 That's about all there is to it.
  
  Have you had another Bullseye pistol shooter shoot the gun with a 10#
soring and 4.0 gr of BE?
 
 Mark
 
 tim copley  wrote:
 
     huh? Not sure how not having a firm wrist would cause
         stove pipes?
         
         
             On 10/10/06, Mark Wilkinson wrote:
                 > You should have said all of that before.
                     >
                         > THEN YOU ARE LIMP WRISTING THE PISTOL.
                             >
                                 > Mark Wilkinson
                                     >
                                         - Show quoted text -
                                             > tim copley wrote:
                                                 > So actually it was 3.6
grains. I wondered why joe was giving me
    > weird looks. Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly said
        > 2.6. However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
            > We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
                > no dice...
                    >
                        > We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither
worked. I'm not sure
    > what to do at this point. About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
        > stove pipes..
            >
                > Any advice would be appreciated!
                    >
                        > TimC
                            > phx,az
                                >
                                    > The original question
                                        > On 10/10/06, NSK Co. wrote:
                                            > > At 10:54 PM 10/9/2006, PK
wrote:
    > > >I have a 45 that shot bull's-eye before, with iron sights just
fine, with
    > > >200 grain cast over 2.6 bull's-eye. I slide mounted a red dot, now
it
    > will
        > > >not cycle reliably, should I lighten the spring?
            > > >
                > > >PK
                    > >
                        > > PK
                            > >
                                > > Now don't take this the wrong way, but
why don't you try adding some
    > > gunpowder to the cartridge case????? 2.6 grains of BE, and you don't
        > > understand why you are having cycling problems? Most shooters
are
    > > using somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.6 - 4.2 grs of BE.
        > >
            > > The answer you seek, is not in the recoil spring. It is the
lack of
    > energy.
        > >
            > >
                > >
                    > >
                        >
                            > > Just for fun, I loaded 10 cases with 2.6 grs
of BE, shot the rounds
    > > in my barrel tester; with a known good Kart barrel. The load shot a
        > > 10" pattern at 50 yards. It appeared that it was not hot enough
to
    > > allow the bullet to stabilize at 50 yards. Are you sure about the
        > > 2.6 grs of BE?
            > >
                > > Regards,
                    > > Neil
                        > > NSK Co
                            > > 410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
                                > > mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
                                    > > http://www.nsksales.com
                                        > >
                                            >
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        					Mark Wilkinson 	
        					to me
        						 More options
Oct 10
Let me put it another way. A limp wrist will cause stove pipes.
 
 Mark
 
 tim copley  wrote:
 
     huh? Not sure how not having a firm wrist would cause
         stove pipes?
         
         
             On 10/10/06, Mark Wilkinson wrote:
                 > You should have said all of that before.
                     >
                         > THEN YOU ARE LIMP WRISTING THE PISTOL.
                             >
                                 > Mark Wilkinson
                                     >
                                         - Show quoted text -
                                             > tim copley wrote:
                                                 > So actually it was 3.6
grains. I wondered why joe was giving me
    > weird looks. Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly said
        > 2.6. However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
            > We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
                > no dice...
                    >
                        > We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither
worked. I'm not sure
    > what to do at this point. About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
        > stove pipes..
            >
                > Any advice would be appreciated!
                    >
                        > TimC
                            > phx,az
                                >
                                    > The original question
                                        > On 10/10/06, NSK Co. wrote:
                                            > > At 10:54 PM 10/9/2006, PK
wrote:
    > > >I have a 45 that shot bull's-eye before, with iron sights just
fine, with
    > > >200 grain cast over 2.6 bull's-eye. I slide mounted a red dot, now
it
    > will
        > > >not cycle reliably, should I lighten the spring?
            > > >
                > > >PK
                    > >
                        > > PK
                            > >
                                > > Now don't take this the wrong way, but
why don't you try adding some
    > > gunpowder to the cartridge case????? 2.6 grains of BE, and you don't
        > > understand why you are having cycling problems? Most shooters
are
    > > using somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.6 - 4.2 grs of BE.
        > >
            > > The answer you seek, is not in the recoil spring. It is the
lack of
    > energy.
        > >
            > >
                > >
                    > >
                        >
                            > > Just for fun, I loaded 10 cases with 2.6 grs
of BE, shot the rounds
    > > in my barrel tester; with a known good Kart barrel. The load shot a
        > > 10" pattern at 50 yards. It appeared that it was not hot enough
to
    > > allow the bullet to stabilize at 50 yards. Are you sure about the
        > > 2.6 grs of BE?
            > >
                > > Regards,
                    > > Neil
                        > > NSK Co
                            > > 410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
                                > > mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
                                    > > http://www.nsksales.com
                                        > >
                                            >
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        					tim copley 	
        					to Mark
        						 More options
Oct 10
Well.  It now has a red dot / scope mount on it.  Yeah, another bullseye
shooter tried it.  I'm not exactly a beginner...  Only a year of experience
though shooting a 45

My kimber using the same load functions properly, with SWC....  Yeah
I've spent way to much on that gun.  That's why I bought this new pistol
Colt series 70 (original series).

The colt is the one with the problem.  It's ~30 years old and has been used
but is not wore out...

I'm not sure if it's exactly a stovepipe.  That's what it looks like when
after
I recover and put the gun down, it looks like.  It's kind of like the
extractor
isn't releasing.... and the shell is getting tipped up

TimC
On 10/10/06, Mark Wilkinson  wrote:
- Show quoted text -
> A limp wrist will have a dramatic effect on how the pistol operates. A
limp
> wrist does not allow the spring to work properly. Trust me, a 10# spring
is
> even too light for 4.0 grains of BE. EXCEPT OF THE GUN IS NEW AND VERY
> TIGHT. If the gun will not function with those two items either of 2
things
> are happening (based on what you are saying that the gun used to
function):
> 1. It is not properly oiled or very dirty.
> 2. You are limp wristing.
>
> That's about all there is to it.
>
> Have you had another Bullseye pistol shooter shoot the gun with a 10#
soring
> and 4.0 gr of BE?
>
> Mark
>
> tim copley  wrote:
> huh? Not sure how not having a firm wrist would cause
> stove pipes?
>
>
> On 10/10/06, Mark Wilkinson wrote:
> > You should have said all of that before.
> >
> > THEN YOU ARE LIMP WRISTING THE PISTOL.
> >
> > Mark Wilkinson
> >
> > tim copley wrote:
> > So actually it was 3.6 grains. I wondered why joe was giving me
> > weird looks. Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly said
> > 2.6. However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
> > We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
> > no dice...
> >
> > We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither worked. I'm not sure
> > what to do at this point. About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
> > stove pipes..
> >
> > Any advice would be appreciated!
> >
> > TimC
> > phx,az
> >
> > The original question
> > On 10/10/06, NSK Co. wrote:
> > > At 10:54 PM 10/9/2006, PK wrote:
> > > >I have a 45 that shot bull's-eye before, with iron sights just fine,
> with
> > > >200 grain cast over 2.6 bull's-eye. I slide mounted a red dot, now it
> > will
> > > >not cycle reliably, should I lighten the spring?
> > > >
> > > >PK
> > >
> > > PK
> > >
> > > Now don't take this the wrong way, but why don't you try adding some
> > > gunpowder to the cartridge case????? 2.6 grains of BE, and you don't
> > > understand why you are having cycling problems? Most shooters are
> > > using somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.6 - 4.2 grs of BE.
> > >
> > > The answer you seek, is not in the recoil spring. It is the lack of
> > energy.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > Just for fun, I loaded 10 cases with 2.6 grs of BE, shot the rounds
> > > in my barrel tester; with a known good Kart barrel. The load shot a
> > > 10" pattern at 50 yards. It appeared that it was not hot enough to
> > > allow the bullet to stabilize at 50 yards. Are you sure about the
> > > 2.6 grs of BE?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Neil
> > > NSK Co
> > > 410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
> > > mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
> > > http://www.nsksales.com
> > >
> >
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
					ross@chesleyconsultants.com 	
					to me
						 More options	  Oct 10
						 Hi Tim,
						 
						 Try another magazine. Many
times magazines are the cause of issues with
cycling.

Regards,


Ross Chesley, in Michigan



Reply	Forward	Invite ross@chesleyconsultants.com to Gmail
	
			
					
					Joseph E. Giannetti, Sr. 	
					to me
						 More options	  Oct 10
						 Who knows? I guess he is
picking up your question on the Bullseye L list.

Here is what I want you to do, tonight ask each guy who shows up what load
they are using for their .45 wad gun. Write the loads down on a piece of
paper, be very careful not to mix up Clay's from Bullseye powder they are
different!

Then look over the list and see what range they are in, also don't forget to
ask if they are shooting a slide mounted scope or a frame mounted scope or
iron sights!

Keep a record of what info you get. Then when reloading use some of these
loads, say 50 of each. You can buy a pound of powder just to experiment
with. Once your gun is functioning 100% then we can set you up on the ransom
rest to test the different loads.

Joe
- Show quoted text -

-----Original Message-----
From: tim copley [mailto:timcopley@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:15 AM
To: Joseph E. Giannetti, Sr.
Subject: Re: [Bullseye-L] cycling of a 1911

Who the heck is this guy?

On 10/10/06, Mark Wilkinson  wrote:
> You should have said all of that before.
>
> THEN YOU ARE LIMP WRISTING THE PISTOL.
>
> Mark Wilkinson
>
> tim copley  wrote:
> So actually it was 3.6 grains. I wondered why joe was giving me
> weird looks. Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly said
> 2.6. However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
> We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
> no dice...
>
> We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither worked. I'm not sure
> what to do at this point. About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
> stove pipes..
>
> Any advice would be appreciated!
>
> TimC
> phx,az
>
> The original question
> On 10/10/06, NSK Co. wrote:
> > At 10:54 PM 10/9/2006, PK wrote:
> > >I have a 45 that shot bull's-eye before, with iron sights just fine,
with
> > >200 grain cast over 2.6 bull's-eye. I slide mounted a red dot, now it
> will
> > >not cycle reliably, should I lighten the spring?
> > >
> > >PK
> >
> > PK
> >
> > Now don't take this the wrong way, but why don't you try adding some
> > gunpowder to the cartridge case????? 2.6 grains of BE, and you don't
> > understand why you are having cycling problems? Most shooters are
> > using somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.6 - 4.2 grs of BE.
> >
> > The answer you seek, is not in the recoil spring. It is the lack of
> energy.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> > Just for fun, I loaded 10 cases with 2.6 grs of BE, shot the rounds
> > in my barrel tester; with a known good Kart barrel. The load shot a
> > 10" pattern at 50 yards. It appeared that it was not hot enough to
> > allow the bullet to stabilize at 50 yards. Are you sure about the
> > 2.6 grs of BE?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Neil
> > NSK Co
> > 410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
> > mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
> > http://www.nsksales.com
> >
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
					
					tim copley 	
					to ross
						 More options	  Oct 10
						 Yeah, I've got lots of
advice, and that is one thing I did try.
3 different magazines.

1) original colt 70 series mag
1) kimber 1911
1) generic 1911 mag, from the guy I bought the gun from.

Didn't seem to make much difference.  about every 3rd shot
(from a 5 round mag) it looked like the extractor held onto
the brass... and then when it passed back over the next bullet
it got tipped up and looked like a stovepipe.

TimC
phx,az
- Show quoted text -

On 10/10/06, ross@chesleyconsultants.com 
wrote:
> Hi Tim,
>
> Try another magazine. Many times magazines are the cause of issues with
> cycling.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Ross Chesley, in Michigan
>
>
>

Reply	Forward
	
			
					
					tim copley 	
					to Joseph
						 More options	  Oct 10
						 ok :)
						 
						 TimC
						 - Show quoted text -
						 
						 On 10/10/06, Joseph E.
Giannetti, Sr.  wrote:
> Who knows? I guess he is picking up your question on the Bullseye L list.
>
> Here is what I want you to do, tonight ask each guy who shows up what load
> they are using for their .45 wad gun. Write the loads down on a piece of
> paper, be very careful not to mix up Clay's from Bullseye powder they are
> different!
>
> Then look over the list and see what range they are in, also don't forget
to
> ask if they are shooting a slide mounted scope or a frame mounted scope or
> iron sights!
>
> Keep a record of what info you get. Then when reloading use some of these
> loads, say 50 of each. You can buy a pound of powder just to experiment
> with. Once your gun is functioning 100% then we can set you up on the
ransom
> rest to test the different loads.
>
> Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tim copley [mailto:timcopley@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:15 AM
> To: Joseph E. Giannetti, Sr.
> Subject: Re: [Bullseye-L] cycling of a 1911
>
> Who the heck is this guy?
>
> On 10/10/06, Mark Wilkinson  wrote:
> > You should have said all of that before.
> >
> > THEN YOU ARE LIMP WRISTING THE PISTOL.
> >
> > Mark Wilkinson
> >
> > tim copley  wrote:
> > So actually it was 3.6 grains. I wondered why joe was giving me
> > weird looks. Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly said
> > 2.6. However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
> > We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
> > no dice...
> >
> > We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither worked. I'm not sure
> > what to do at this point. About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
> > stove pipes..
> >
> > Any advice would be appreciated!
> >
> > TimC
> > phx,az
> >
> > The original question
> > On 10/10/06, NSK Co. wrote:
> > > At 10:54 PM 10/9/2006, PK wrote:
> > > >I have a 45 that shot bull's-eye before, with iron sights just fine,
> with
> > > >200 grain cast over 2.6 bull's-eye. I slide mounted a red dot, now it
> > will
> > > >not cycle reliably, should I lighten the spring?
> > > >
> > > >PK
> > >
> > > PK
> > >
> > > Now don't take this the wrong way, but why don't you try adding some
> > > gunpowder to the cartridge case????? 2.6 grains of BE, and you don't
> > > understand why you are having cycling problems? Most shooters are
> > > using somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.6 - 4.2 grs of BE.
> > >
> > > The answer you seek, is not in the recoil spring. It is the lack of
> > energy.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > Just for fun, I loaded 10 cases with 2.6 grs of BE, shot the rounds
> > > in my barrel tester; with a known good Kart barrel. The load shot a
> > > 10" pattern at 50 yards. It appeared that it was not hot enough to
> > > allow the bullet to stabilize at 50 yards. Are you sure about the
> > > 2.6 grs of BE?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Neil
> > > NSK Co
> > > 410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
> > > mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
> > > http://www.nsksales.com
> > >
> >
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
						 More options	  Oct 10
						 Tim Limp wristing the
pistol is when your holding the gun tight enough to
allow the energy of the explosion to operate the slide and often causes a
malfunction. Girls do this a lot! I was not limping your gun so its just a
comment because he don't know his ass from a hole in the ground. Right now
we all do not know what factors are causing your gun to jam. And actually
its not stove piping its jamming the casing typically stays horizontal not
vertically out the port which is called stove pipe.

You might want to bring some typical ammo to the range tonight and I can get
it to Frank he might want to shoot the gun with your ammo and see how it is
working or even to diagnose the problem. I'd give him some of those Star's
but I don't have any left. If I give him my Valliant's they are a little
hotter than the Star's.

-----Original Message-----
From: tim copley [mailto:timcopley@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:15 AM
To: Joseph E. Giannetti, Sr.
Subject: Re: [Bullseye-L] cycling of a 1911

- Show quoted text -
Who the heck is this guy?

On 10/10/06, Mark Wilkinson  wrote:
> You should have said all of that before.
>
> THEN YOU ARE LIMP WRISTING THE PISTOL.
>
> Mark Wilkinson
>
> tim copley  wrote:
> So actually it was 3.6 grains. I wondered why joe was giving me
> weird looks. Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly said
> 2.6. However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
> We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
> no dice...
>
> We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither worked. I'm not sure
> what to do at this point. About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
> stove pipes..
>
> Any advice would be appreciated!
>
> TimC
> phx,az
>
> The original question
> On 10/10/06, NSK Co. wrote:
> > At 10:54 PM 10/9/2006, PK wrote:
> > >I have a 45 that shot bull's-eye before, with iron sights just fine,
with
> > >200 grain cast over 2.6 bull's-eye. I slide mounted a red dot, now it
> will
> > >not cycle reliably, should I lighten the spring?
> > >
> > >PK
> >
> > PK
> >
> > Now don't take this the wrong way, but why don't you try adding some
> > gunpowder to the cartridge case????? 2.6 grains of BE, and you don't
> > understand why you are having cycling problems? Most shooters are
> > using somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.6 - 4.2 grs of BE.
> >
> > The answer you seek, is not in the recoil spring. It is the lack of
> energy.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> > Just for fun, I loaded 10 cases with 2.6 grs of BE, shot the rounds
> > in my barrel tester; with a known good Kart barrel. The load shot a
> > 10" pattern at 50 yards. It appeared that it was not hot enough to
> > allow the bullet to stabilize at 50 yards. Are you sure about the
> > 2.6 grs of BE?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Neil
> > NSK Co
> > 410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
> > mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
> > http://www.nsksales.com
> >
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
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> > (Please visit the above links before requesting personal assistance.)
> >
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> >
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Reply	Forward	Invite Joseph to Gmail
	
			
					
					NSK Co. 	
					to me, PK, Bullseye-L
						 More options	  Oct 10
						 At 10:05 AM 10/10/2006, tim
copley wrote:
> So actually it was 3.6 grains.  I wondered why joe was giving me
> weird looks.  Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly said
> 2.6.  However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
> We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
> no dice...
>
> We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither worked.  I'm not sure
> what to do at this point.  About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
> stove pipes..
>
> Any advice would be appreciated!
>
> TimC
> phx,az
>
> OK
>
> Let's start at the beginning.  Let's talk about how the gun is set up. 
Scope, mount, rings, etc.  Dry, or wet...with oil.  Clean or dirty.  Let's
start at the beginning.  Perhaps, something is binding the barrel.  Start
looking.
>
> Regards,
> Neil
> NSK Co
> 410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
> mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
> http://www.nsksales.com

Reply	Reply to all	Forward	Invite NSK to Gmail
	
			
					
					Ed Skinner 	
					to me, Bullseye-L
						 More options	  Oct 10
						 On Tuesday 10 October 2006
07:05, tim copley wrote:
> We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither worked.  I'm not sure
> what to do at this point.  About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
> stove pipes..

Hi Tim (see you at league tonight?),
    Watch where the empties go. Ed Masaki has said they should land (mostly)
    6-9 feet back and right. Too far and the spring is too weak (was that
your
brass raining down on me three positions away last week?), too close and the
spring is too strong. I had to tweak my wad gun in one (1) lb increments
before it was reliable (I put a complete set of springs on my Xmas list).
    Find an accurate load first, then tune the spring for reliability.
        Also for reliability in my wadder (but not causing stove pipes) was
the
issue of figuring out what COL would work well. I settled on 1.240"
(actually
1.235" to 1.245" seems to be OK in my wad gun) -- much longer than that and
they won't chamber all the time (the new round hangs up cocked sideways and
halfway into the chamber).
    Crimp *may* also play an issue but in my wadder, COL seems to be more
    important.
        Getting rid of Glock-fired brass from my supply was also a major
help. A
Martindale gauge (wanna borrow mine?) made the culling process easy but it
took all of one evening to go through the bucket of empties. The fat web
("base", near the "head" of the brass) would keep the new round from
chambering all the way -- the slide would still be back about 1/8", farther
in than the COL problem but still not closed. (I think I remember pushing
one
to seat it and having it go "bang" but I'm not 100% sure where my trigger
finger was, so... ... Now I don't push.)
    Given the minor differences and how the round fails to exit or the next
    one chamber, there's undoubtedly some "try this and see if this helps"
to the
process. One "clue" may lead to different solutions. The above are just what
seemed to work for me.
    See you tonight at league!
    
    --
    Ed Skinner, ed@flat5.net, http://www.flat5.net/
    and http://conventionalpistol.blogspot.com/
    
    
    Reply	Reply to all	Forward	Invite Ed to Gmail
    	
    			
    					
    					John 	
    					 to me, Bullseye-L
    						 More options	  Oct 10
    						 I had this problem once
with a new gun I had converted for bullseye, it
worked just fine with a dot scope and 11 pound spring.  Then I got the
bright idea that instead of oil, grease would be better.  Wrong.  Wouldn't
cycle at all.

John
----- Original Message -----
From: "NSK Co." 
To: "tim copley" 
Cc: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Bullseye-L] cycling of a 1911


- Show quoted text -
> At 10:05 AM 10/10/2006, tim copley wrote:
>>So actually it was 3.6 grains.  I wondered why joe was giving me
>>weird looks.  Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly said
>>2.6.  However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
>>We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
>>no dice...
>>
>>We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither worked.  I'm not sure
>>what to do at this point.  About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
>>stove pipes..
>>
>>Any advice would be appreciated!
>>
>>TimC
>>phx,az
>>
>>OK
>>
>>Let's start at the beginning.  Let's talk about how the gun is set up.
>>Scope, mount, rings, etc.  Dry, or wet...with oil.  Clean or dirty.  Let's
>>start at the beginning.  Perhaps, something is binding the barrel.  Start
>>looking.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Neil
>>NSK Co
>>410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
>>mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
>>http://www.nsksales.com
- Show quoted text -
>
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Reply	Reply to all	Forward	Invite John to Gmail
	
			
					
					Bryan W. Coyle 	
					 to me
						 More options	  Oct 10
						 Have you tried adjusting
the extractor?  It might be a bit tight and
failing to release the case easily enough.
/Bryan
- Show quoted text -

At 09:05 AM 10/10/2006, you wrote:
>So actually it was 3.6 grains.  I wondered why joe was giving me
>weird looks.  Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly said
>2.6.  However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
>We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
>no dice...
>
>We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither worked.  I'm not sure
>what to do at this point.  About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
>stove pipes..


Reply	Forward	Invite Bryan to Gmail
	
			
					
					Dave Salyer 	
					 to me,
Bullseye-L
	 More options	  Oct 10
	 Tim,
	 Check your extractor tension by putting an empty case in the
chamber and
pulling the slide back slowly. The case should be held horizontal until it
hits the ejector. If it droops you will have stovepipes.
You need to verify that you have an extended ejector.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "tim copley" 
To: "NSK Co" 
Cc: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Bullseye-L] cycling of a 1911


- Show quoted text -
> So actually it was 3.6 grains.  I wondered why joe was giving me
> weird looks.  Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly said
> 2.6.  However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
> We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
> no dice...
>
> We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither worked.  I'm not sure
> what to do at this point.  About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
> stove pipes..
>
> Any advice would be appreciated!
>
> TimC
> phx,az
>
> The original question
> On 10/10/06, NSK Co.  wrote:
>> At 10:54 PM 10/9/2006, PK wrote:
>> >I have a 45 that shot bull's-eye before, with iron sights just fine,
>> >with
>> >200 grain cast over 2.6 bull's-eye. I slide mounted a red dot, now it
>> >will
>> >not cycle reliably, should I lighten the spring?
>> >
>> >PK
>>
>> PK
>>
>> Now don't take this the wrong way, but why don't you try adding some
>> gunpowder to the cartridge case?????  2.6 grains of BE, and you don't
>> understand why you are having cycling problems?  Most shooters are
>> using somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.6 - 4.2 grs of BE.
>>
>> The answer you seek, is not in the recoil spring.  It is the lack of
>> energy.
>>
>> 
>> 
>>
>> Just for fun, I loaded 10 cases with 2.6 grs of BE, shot the rounds
>> in my barrel tester; with a known good Kart barrel.  The load shot a
>> 10" pattern at 50 yards.  It appeared that it was not hot enough to
>> allow the bullet to stabilize at 50 yards.  Are you sure about the
>> 2.6 grs of BE?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Neil
>> NSK Co
>> 410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
>> mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
>> http://www.nsksales.com
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Bullseye-L Email Discussion Forum
>>
>> Post Messages to Bullseye-L@lists.lava.net
>>
>> Member Options Page:
>> http://lists.lava.net/mailman/listinfo/bullseye-l
>> (For unsubscribing, switching to the digest version, etc.)
>>
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>> http://www.lava.net/~perrone/bullseye
>> (General info and announcements, policy on off-topic messages, links,
>> etc.)
>>
>> Message Archive:
>> http://groups.google.com/group/Bullseye-L-Archive
>>
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>> (Please visit the above links before requesting personal assistance.)
>>
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>> ***   your replies to the list   ***
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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> ***   your replies to the list   ***
>
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>


Reply	Reply to all	Forward	Invite Dave to Gmail
	
			
					
					tim copley 	
					to NSK, PK, Bullseye-L
						 More options	  Oct 10
						 When I first shot the gun
it was filthy, stock colt series 70
(original series 70).
Then a red dot with scope mount was added.  Ultra red dot.  I'm not sure of
the mount.  It's not rings.  It's a long flat panel that allows a
weaver type mount
of the reddot.  (r/r scope mount?)

A local gunsmith did a trigger job with replacing hammer / sear /
disconnector.
The guy I bought the gun from put the ultra red dot on.

After the problem was discovered, I took it apart and cleaned it very well.
even removed the extractor and cleaned out the hole for the spring / firing
pin
and extractor.  It was filthy.

Still having the same problem.  the brass seems to get stuck in the
extractor.
Sometimes it's still holding the brass.  other times, it's stuck with
the neck of
the case sticking straight up and the rim of the case wedged between the
frame
and the slide.

I've tried a variety of ammuntion. SWC,RN, etcetra,  it all seems to hang.
also tried several different springs.  10lb 13lb stock (16lb?)  with a
variety
of load charges 3.3 3.6 3.8 4.0 bullseye.  Also tried several
different magazines.
stock kimber, stock colt, generic 1911 mag,

Ideas?

Thanks for all feedback!
TimC
phx, AZ

On 10/10/06, NSK Co.  wrote:
>
- Show quoted text -
>  At 10:05 AM 10/10/2006, tim copley wrote:
>
> So actually it was 3.6 grains.  I wondered why joe was giving me
>  weird looks.  Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly said
>  2.6.  However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
>  We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
>  no dice...
>
>  We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither worked.  I'm not sure
>  what to do at this point.  About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
>  stove pipes..
>
>  Any advice would be appreciated!
>
>  TimC
>  phx,az
>
>
>
>  OK
>
>  Let's start at the beginning.  Let's talk about how the gun is set up.
> Scope, mount, rings, etc.  Dry, or wet...with oil.  Clean or dirty.  Let's
> start at the beginning.  Perhaps, something is binding the barrel.  Start
> looking.
>
>  Regards,
>  Neil
>  NSK Co
>  410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
>  mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
>  http://www.nsksales.com
>

Reply	Reply to all	Forward
	
			
					
					NSK Co. 	
					to me, PK, Bullseye-L
						 More options	  Oct 10
						 - Show quoted text -
						 At 12:16 PM 10/10/2006, tim
copley wrote:
> - Show quoted text -
> When I first shot the gun it was filthy, stock colt series 70
> (original series 70).
> Then a red dot with scope mount was added.  Ultra red dot.  I'm not sure
of
> the mount.  It's not rings.  It's a long flat panel that allows a
> weaver type mount
> of the reddot.  (r/r scope mount?)
>
> A local gunsmith did a trigger job with replacing hammer / sear /
disconnector.
> The guy I bought the gun from put the ultra red dot on.
>
> After the problem was discovered, I took it apart and cleaned it very
well.
> even removed the extractor and cleaned out the hole for the spring /
firing pin
> and extractor.  It was filthy.
>
> Still having the same problem.  the brass seems to get stuck in the
extractor.
> Sometimes it's still holding the brass.  other times, it's stuck with
> the neck of
> the case sticking straight up and the rim of the case wedged between the
frame
> and the slide.
>
> I've tried a variety of ammuntion. SWC,RN, etcetra,  it all seems to hang.
> also tried several different springs.  10lb 13lb stock (16lb?)  with a
variety
> of load charges 3.3 3.6 3.8 4.0 bullseye.  Also tried several
> different magazines.
> stock kimber, stock colt, generic 1911 mag,
>
> Ideas?
>
> Thanks for all feedback!
> TimC
> phx, AZ
>
> Tim
>
> I suspect that Dave Salyer may be right.  Take a moment, remove the slide. 
Look at the EJECTOR on the frame.  Is it long, looks like a finger pointing,
or is it blunt, sort of squared off?
>
> Regards,
> Neil
> NSK Co
> 410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
> mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
> http://www.nsksales.com

Reply	Reply to all	Forward	Invite NSK to Gmail
	
			
					
					k c 	
					 to me
						 More options	  Oct 10
						 Tim,
						  
						  Let's try to make this
easy.  Give me a call and let's see if we can trouble shoot this over the
phone and get you back up and running.
 
 KC Crawford
 843-267-3773
 www.kcskustomcreations.net
 - Show quoted text -
 
 tim copley  wrote:
 
     - Show quoted text -
         When I first shot the gun it was filthy, stock colt series 70
             (original series 70).
                 Then a red dot with scope mount was added. Ultra red dot.
I'm not sure of
    the mount. It's not rings. It's a long flat panel that allows a
        weaver type mount
            of the reddot. (r/r scope mount?)
            
                A local gunsmith did a trigger job with replacing hammer /
sear / disconnector.
    The guy I bought the gun from put the ultra red dot on.
    
        After the problem was discovered, I took it apart and cleaned it
very well.
    even removed the extractor and cleaned out the hole for the spring /
firing pin
    and extractor. It was filthy.
    
        Still having the same problem. the brass seems to get stuck in the
extractor.
    Sometimes it's still holding the brass. other times, it's stuck with
        the neck of
            the case sticking straight up and the rim of the case wedged
between the frame
    and the slide.
    
        I've tried a variety of ammuntion. SWC,RN, etcetra, it all seems to
hang.
    also tried several different springs. 10lb 13lb stock (16lb?) with a
variety
    of load charges 3.3 3.6 3.8 4.0 bullseye. Also tried several
        different magazines.
            stock kimber, stock colt, generic 1911 mag,
            
                Ideas?
                
                    Thanks for all feedback!
                        TimC
                            phx, AZ
                            
                                On 10/10/06, NSK Co. wrote:
                                    >
                                        > At 10:05 AM 10/10/2006, tim copley
wrote:
    >
        > So actually it was 3.6 grains. I wondered why joe was giving me
            > weird looks. Either he didn't hear me correctly or I
mistakenly said
    > 2.6. However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
        > We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
            > no dice...
                >
                    > We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither worked.
I'm not sure
    > what to do at this point. About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
        > stove pipes..
            >
                > Any advice would be appreciated!
                    >
                        > TimC
                            > phx,az
                                >
                                    >
                                        >
                                            > OK
                                                >
                                                    > Let's start at the
beginning. Let's talk about how the gun is set up.
    > Scope, mount, rings, etc. Dry, or wet...with oil. Clean or dirty.
Let's
    > start at the beginning. Perhaps, something is binding the barrel.
Start
    > looking.
        >
            > Regards,
                > Neil
                    > NSK Co
                        > 410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
                            > mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
                                > http://www.nsksales.com
                                
                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new
Yahoo! Mail.


Reply	Forward	Invite k to Gmail
	
			
					
					Ed Masaki 	
					to me, NSK, Bullseye-L
						 More options	  Oct 10
						 
						 
						 
						 So actually it was 3.6
grains.  I wondered why joe was giving me weird
looks.  Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly said 2.6.
However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6 We also tried
50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye no dice...
We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither worked.  I'm not sure what
to do at this point.  About every 3rd or 4th round the gun stove pipes..
Any advice would be appreciated!
TimC
phx,az

       AFTER ALL THE ADVICE IN POWDER AND SPRING CHANGES YOU ARE STILL
       GETTING JAMS.  I WOULD
       START LOOKING AT THE GUN IT SELF. WHEN YOU ADDED ON THE SCOPE IT
ADDED
ON MORE WEIGHTS AND
THAT CHANGES THE TIMING OF THE CYCLE OF THE SLIDE.  STOVE PIPE JAMS ARE
CAUSED BY BAD MAGAZINE
AND EXTRACTOR. THAT ALSO INCLUDES AMMO. WHEN YOU HAVE A SLIDE COMING
BACK VERY FAST LIKE USING
A HOT AMMO OR TOO LIGHT A RECOIL SPRING THE SLAMMING OF THE SLIDE WOULD
CAUSE THE TOP ROUND TO
JAR LOOSE FROM THE MAGAZINE WHICH IS WHAT A STOVE PIPE IS.  JUST A EMPTY
SHELL GETTING CAUGHT BETWEEN THE SLIDE AND BARREL HOOD WOULD BE THE
PROBLEM OF THE EXTRACTOR LETTING LOOSE TOO EARLY THAT THE EJECTOR HAD NO
TIME TO KICK IT OUT. YOU HEARD FROM OTHERS HOW TO ADJUST THE EXTRACTOR.
CHECK IT OUT.  ITS BETTER FOR A EXTRACTOR TO BE MORE FIRM THAN LOOSE.
ALSO CHECK THE TIMING
OF THE BARREL RELEASE FROM THE SLIDE.  THE BARREL SHOULD CLEAR THE SLIDE
WHEN THE SLIDE IS BEING
PULLED TO THE REAR BY HAND.  IT SHOULD NOT STICK OR CLICK.  AT THIS TIME
I CANNOT GIVE OUT OUR
SECRET WAYS OF DOING IT.   IF YOU LIVE NEAR DAVE SALYER OR RODDY TOYOTA
OR BOB BROWN LET THEM
CHECK IT OUT FOR YOU. THEY KNOW HOW TO DO IT.  TIMING IS VERY IMPORTANT.
ED M.


Reply	Reply to all	Forward	Invite Ed to Gmail
	
			
					
					Mark Wilkinson 	
					to me
						 More options	  Oct 10
						 Tim,
						  
						  I probably should have
asked you what kind (who's) mags are you using. And have you tried to
eliminate that as a variable?
 
 Mark
 
 tim copley  wrote:
 
     Well. It now has a red dot / scope mount on it. Yeah, another bullseye
         shooter tried it. I'm not exactly a beginner... Only a year of
experience
    though shooting a 45
    
        My kimber using the same load functions properly, with SWC.... Yeah
            I've spent way to much on that gun. That's why I bought this new
pistol
    Colt series 70 (original series).
    
        The colt is the one with the problem. It's ~30 years old and has
been used
    but is not wore out...
    
        I'm not sure if it's exactly a stovepipe. That's what it looks like
when after
    I recover and put the gun down, it looks like. It's kind of like the
extractor
    isn't releasing.... and the shell is getting tipped up
    
        TimC
            On 10/10/06, Mark Wilkinson wrote:
                > A limp wrist will have a dramatic effect on how the pistol
operates. A limp
    > wrist does not allow the spring to work properly. Trust me, a 10#
spring is
    > even too light for 4.0 grains of BE. EXCEPT OF THE GUN IS NEW AND VERY
        > TIGHT. If the gun will not function with those two items either of
2 things
    > are happening (based on what you are saying that the gun used to
function):
    > 1. It is not properly oiled or very dirty.
        > 2. You are limp wristing.
            >
                > That's about all there is to it.
                    >
                        > Have you had another Bullseye pistol shooter shoot
the gun with a 10# soring
    > and 4.0 gr of BE?
        >
            > Mark
                >
                    - Show quoted text -
                        > tim copley wrote:
                            > huh? Not sure how not having a firm wrist
would cause
    > stove pipes?
        >
            >
                > On 10/10/06, Mark Wilkinson wrote:
                    > > You should have said all of that before.
                        > >
                            > > THEN YOU ARE LIMP WRISTING THE PISTOL.
                                > >
                                    > > Mark Wilkinson
                                        > >
                                            > > tim copley wrote:
                                                > > So actually it was 3.6
grains. I wondered why joe was giving me
    > > weird looks. Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly said
        > > 2.6. However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
            > > We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
                > > no dice...
                    > >
                        > > We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither
worked. I'm not sure
    > > what to do at this point. About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
        > > stove pipes..
            > >
                > > Any advice would be appreciated!
                    > >
                        > > TimC
                            > > phx,az
                                > >
                                    > > The original question
                                        > > On 10/10/06, NSK Co. wrote:
                                            > > > At 10:54 PM 10/9/2006, PK
wrote:
    > > > >I have a 45 that shot bull's-eye before, with iron sights just
fine,
    > with
        > > > >200 grain cast over 2.6 bull's-eye. I slide mounted a red
dot, now it
    > > will
        > > > >not cycle reliably, should I lighten the spring?
            > > > >
                > > > >PK
                    > > >
                        > > > PK
                            > > >
                                > > > Now don't take this the wrong way, but
why don't you try adding some
    > > > gunpowder to the cartridge case????? 2.6 grains of BE, and you
don't
    > > > understand why you are having cycling problems? Most shooters are
        > > > using somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.6 - 4.2 grs of BE.
            > > >
                > > > The answer you seek, is not in the recoil spring. It
is the lack of
    > > energy.
        > > >
            > > >
                > > >
                    > > >
                        > >
                            > > > Just for fun, I loaded 10 cases with 2.6
grs of BE, shot the rounds
    > > > in my barrel tester; with a known good Kart barrel. The load shot
a
    > > > 10" pattern at 50 yards. It appeared that it was not hot enough to
        > > > allow the bullet to stabilize at 50 yards. Are you sure about
the
    > > > 2.6 grs of BE?
        > > >
            > > > Regards,
                > > > Neil
                    > > > NSK Co
                        > > > 410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
                            > > > mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
                                > > > http://www.nsksales.com
                                    > > >
                                        > >
                                            >
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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        > > >
            > > > Post Messages to Bullseye-L@lists.lava.net
                > > >
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    > > > (For unsubscribing, switching to the digest version, etc.)
        > > >
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                    > > > (General info and announcements, policy on
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    > > etc.)
        > > >
            > > > Message Archive:
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                            > > > (Please visit the above links before
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                > > >
                    > >
                        >
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    > > Bullseye-L Email Discussion Forum
        > >
            > > Post Messages to Bullseye-L@lists.lava.net
                > >
                    > > Member Options Page:
                        > >
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    > > (For unsubscribing, switching to the digest version, etc.)
        > >
            > > List Home Page:
                > > http://www.lava.net/~perrone/bullseye
                    > > (General info and announcements, policy on off-topic
messages, links,
    > etc.)
        > >
            > > Message Archive:
                > > http://groups.google.com/group/Bullseye-L-Archive
                    > >
                        > > Listowner: Paul Perrone [perrone@lava.net]
                            > > (Please visit the above links before
requesting personal assistance.)
    > >
        > > *** Please delete this footer in ***
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                Reply	Forward	Invite Mark to Gmail
                	
                			
                					
                					Dave Salyer 	

 to Joseph, me
	 More options	  Oct 10
	 Joe,
	 This gun needs to go to a bullseye specialist, not an ordinary
gunsmith.
Throating has nothing to do with ejection.
The ejection port must be lowered when a red dot is added.
Tim did you test the extractor tension?
Dave



----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph E Giannetti Sr" 
To: "'Dave Salyer'" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 1:30 PM
Subject: RE: [Bullseye-L] cycling of a 1911


> Dave,
>
> Tim's gun is a stock Colt 70 Series he added a red dot to the slide. I
> don't
> think he has an extended ejector and his port is not lowered or flared.
> I'm
> dropping it off to a local gunsmith today for him.
>
> This fellow seems to think a throat job is in order what are your thoughts
> on that?
>
> Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bullseye-l-bounces+yankeeb=cox.net@lists.lava.net
> [mailto:bullseye-l-bounces+yankeeb=cox.net@lists.lava.net] On Behalf Of
> Dave
> Salyer
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 8:31 AM
> To: tim copley
> Cc: Bullseye-L@kulolo.lava.net
> Subject: Re: [Bullseye-L] cycling of a 1911
>
> Tim,
> Check your extractor tension by putting an empty case in the chamber and
> pulling the slide back slowly. The case should be held horizontal until it
> hits the ejector. If it droops you will have stovepipes.
> You need to verify that you have an extended ejector.
> Dave
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tim copley" 
> To: "NSK Co" 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [Bullseye-L] cycling of a 1911
>
>
>> So actually it was 3.6 grains.  I wondered why joe was giving me
>> weird looks.  Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly said
>> 2.6.  However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
>> We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
>> no dice...
>>
>> We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither worked.  I'm not sure
>> what to do at this point.  About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
>> stove pipes..
>>
>> Any advice would be appreciated!
>>
>> TimC
>> phx,az
>>
>> The original question
>> On 10/10/06, NSK Co.  wrote:
>>> At 10:54 PM 10/9/2006, PK wrote:
>>> >I have a 45 that shot bull's-eye before, with iron sights just fine,
>>> >with
>>> >200 grain cast over 2.6 bull's-eye. I slide mounted a red dot, now it
>>> >will
>>> >not cycle reliably, should I lighten the spring?
>>> >
>>> >PK
>>>
>>> PK
>>>
>>> Now don't take this the wrong way, but why don't you try adding some
>>> gunpowder to the cartridge case?????  2.6 grains of BE, and you don't
>>> understand why you are having cycling problems?  Most shooters are
>>> using somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.6 - 4.2 grs of BE.
>>>
>>> The answer you seek, is not in the recoil spring.  It is the lack of
>>> energy.
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
- Show quoted text -
>>> Just for fun, I loaded 10 cases with 2.6 grs of BE, shot the rounds
>>> in my barrel tester; with a known good Kart barrel.  The load shot a
>>> 10" pattern at 50 yards.  It appeared that it was not hot enough to
>>> allow the bullet to stabilize at 50 yards.  Are you sure about the
>>> 2.6 grs of BE?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Neil
>>> NSK Co
>>> 410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
>>> mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
>>> http://www.nsksales.com
>>>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
					
					Joseph E. Giannetti, Sr. 	
					to Dave, me
						 More options	  Oct 10
						 Dave,
						 
						 I dropped the gun off today
to Frank Glenn. Tim wanted to shoot it in the
upcoming AZ State Championship otherwise I would have told Time to ship it
to you in the first place.

Frank said he should lower the port, tune the extractor and add an extended
ejector along with throating the gun. So that is what is being done at this
point.

If we have any further issues I get in touch with you would you be
interested in looking over the gun?

Thanks

Joe
- Show quoted text -
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Salyer [mailto:salyer@comporium.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 4:08 PM
To: Joseph E Giannetti Sr; tim copley
Subject: Re: [Bullseye-L] cycling of a 1911

Joe,
This gun needs to go to a bullseye specialist, not an ordinary gunsmith.
Throating has nothing to do with ejection.
The ejection port must be lowered when a red dot is added.
Tim did you test the extractor tension?
Dave



----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph E Giannetti Sr" 
To: "'Dave Salyer'" 
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 1:30 PM
Subject: RE: [Bullseye-L] cycling of a 1911


> Dave,
>
> Tim's gun is a stock Colt 70 Series he added a red dot to the slide. I
> don't
> think he has an extended ejector and his port is not lowered or flared.
> I'm
> dropping it off to a local gunsmith today for him.
>
> This fellow seems to think a throat job is in order what are your thoughts
> on that?
>
> Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bullseye-l-bounces+yankeeb=cox.net@lists.lava.net
> [mailto:bullseye-l-bounces+yankeeb=cox.net@lists.lava.net] On Behalf Of
> Dave
> Salyer
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 8:31 AM
> To: tim copley
> Cc: Bullseye-L@kulolo.lava.net
> Subject: Re: [Bullseye-L] cycling of a 1911
>
> Tim,
> Check your extractor tension by putting an empty case in the chamber and
> pulling the slide back slowly. The case should be held horizontal until it
> hits the ejector. If it droops you will have stovepipes.
> You need to verify that you have an extended ejector.
> Dave
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tim copley" 
> To: "NSK Co" 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [Bullseye-L] cycling of a 1911
>
>
>> So actually it was 3.6 grains.  I wondered why joe was giving me
>> weird looks.  Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly said
>> 2.6.  However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
>> We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
>> no dice...
>>
>> We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither worked.  I'm not sure
>> what to do at this point.  About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
>> stove pipes..
>>
>> Any advice would be appreciated!
>>
>> TimC
>> phx,az
>>
>> The original question
>> On 10/10/06, NSK Co.  wrote:
>>> At 10:54 PM 10/9/2006, PK wrote:
>>> >I have a 45 that shot bull's-eye before, with iron sights just fine,
>>> >with
>>> >200 grain cast over 2.6 bull's-eye. I slide mounted a red dot, now it
>>> >will
>>> >not cycle reliably, should I lighten the spring?
>>> >
>>> >PK
>>>
>>> PK
>>>
>>> Now don't take this the wrong way, but why don't you try adding some
>>> gunpowder to the cartridge case?????  2.6 grains of BE, and you don't
>>> understand why you are having cycling problems?  Most shooters are
>>> using somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.6 - 4.2 grs of BE.
>>>
>>> The answer you seek, is not in the recoil spring.  It is the lack of
>>> energy.
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> Just for fun, I loaded 10 cases with 2.6 grs of BE, shot the rounds
>>> in my barrel tester; with a known good Kart barrel.  The load shot a
>>> 10" pattern at 50 yards.  It appeared that it was not hot enough to
>>> allow the bullet to stabilize at 50 yards.  Are you sure about the
>>> 2.6 grs of BE?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Neil
>>> NSK Co
>>> 410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
>>> mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
>>> http://www.nsksales.com
>>>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
					
					Phil McCullough 	
					 to Dave, me,
Bullseye-L
	 More options	  Oct 12 (6 days ago)
	 Dave/Tim;
	      Last winter while at my winter place in Florida I ran low on
45
reloads, had no way to make more so inlisted the help of a friend in Ohio to
make and ship me some. These loads were made up with  the same bullets that
I had been using, Star 185 hp's., 3.8 gr. Clays with a light roll crimp
about 1/32 lead exposed above the shoulder etc. just like I had been making
and using with no difficulty.. WELL, they would'nt work reliably, about
every other round the empty would jam partially extracted against the breech
face, and were very difficult to remove! Of course this was discovered at a
match, thankfully I had enough other rounds to get through the match. On
examination  the only difference I could see was that the loads were all in
NORMA brass, and appeared to be fairly new.  The rounds all chambered
normally and I ended up having to use them for slow fire where they
preformed normally except for the mentioned failure to eject.  The was gun
is built on a Springfield mil spec. I called my friend that loaded the ammo,
he said he'd been shooting the same ammo as he made me, with no difficulties
and was also puzzled by the problem.  A few days later he called me and said
he had duplicated the problem I was having merely by switching to an
accurized Springfield that he had! He went on to say that he only shot the
Norma based reloads in his Colt guns and never had a incident with them. At
his suggestion I tried these same loads in my Colt wad gun and bingo, no
hang ups! He later said he got the Springfield to work with the Norma brass
after some modifications to the extractor shape and increasing the extractor
tension.  I have never measured the Norma brass to see where the differences
must be and in fact returned it all to my friend so as not to contaminate my
brass supply.  I shoot all brands of cases in practice (other than Norma)
and have never had the problem before or since!              Apparently
there may be an issue shooting Norma 45 brass in Springfield's at least
there was for me! Thought I'd pass this along, seems like there's always
something to be learned!
Regards, Phil




----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Salyer" 
To: "tim copley" 
Cc: 
- Show quoted text -
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Bullseye-L] cycling of a 1911


> Tim,
> Check your extractor tension by putting an empty case in the chamber and
> pulling the slide back slowly. The case should be held horizontal until it
> hits the ejector. If it droops you will have stovepipes.
> You need to verify that you have an extended ejector.
> Dave
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tim copley" 
> To: "NSK Co" 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [Bullseye-L] cycling of a 1911
>
>
>> So actually it was 3.6 grains.  I wondered why joe was giving me
>> weird looks.  Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly said
>> 2.6.  However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
>> We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
>> no dice...
>>
>> We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither worked.  I'm not sure
>> what to do at this point.  About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
>> stove pipes..
>>
>> Any advice would be appreciated!
>>
>> TimC
>> phx,az
>>
>> The original question
>> On 10/10/06, NSK Co.  wrote:
>>> At 10:54 PM 10/9/2006, PK wrote:
>>> >I have a 45 that shot bull's-eye before, with iron sights just fine,
>>> >with
>>> >200 grain cast over 2.6 bull's-eye. I slide mounted a red dot, now it
>>> >will
>>> >not cycle reliably, should I lighten the spring?
>>> >
>>> >PK
>>>
>>> PK
>>>
>>> Now don't take this the wrong way, but why don't you try adding some
>>> gunpowder to the cartridge case?????  2.6 grains of BE, and you don't
>>> understand why you are having cycling problems?  Most shooters are
>>> using somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.6 - 4.2 grs of BE.
>>>
>>> The answer you seek, is not in the recoil spring.  It is the lack of
>>> energy.
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> Just for fun, I loaded 10 cases with 2.6 grs of BE, shot the rounds
>>> in my barrel tester; with a known good Kart barrel.  The load shot a
>>> 10" pattern at 50 yards.  It appeared that it was not hot enough to
>>> allow the bullet to stabilize at 50 yards.  Are you sure about the
>>> 2.6 grs of BE?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Neil
>>> NSK Co
>>> 410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
>>> mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
>>> http://www.nsksales.com
>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
					Dave Salyer 	
					 to Phil, me,
Bullseye-L
	 More options	  Oct 13 (5 days ago)
	 Phil,
	 I am almost sure it is not the Norma brass. Here is my opinion
after
experiencing the same situation between my old, old Colt and several
Springfields with  Kart match barrels.
The Springfields have more friction during the opening part of the cycle.
Ideally, the barrel should cam downward upon unlocking to give .010"
clearance between the top of the barrel and the slide. Match barrels often
don't cam downward to give more than a two or three thousandths clearance so
the slide rubs the top of the barrel. To verify this look for scrub marks on
top back of the barrel.
Check with me off line for the likely cure.
Dave


----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil McCullough" 
To: "Dave Salyer" ; "tim copley" 
Cc: 
- Show quoted text -
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 12:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Bullseye-L] cycling of a 1911


> Dave/Tim;
>      Last winter while at my winter place in Florida I ran low on 45
> reloads, had no way to make more so inlisted the help of a friend in Ohio
> to make and ship me some. These loads were made up with  the same bullets
> that I had been using, Star 185 hp's., 3.8 gr. Clays with a light roll
> crimp about 1/32 lead exposed above the shoulder etc. just like I had been
> making and using with no difficulty.. WELL, they would'nt work reliably,
> about every other round the empty would jam partially extracted against
> the breech face, and were very difficult to remove! Of course this was
> discovered at a match, thankfully I had enough other rounds to get through
> the match. On examination  the only difference I could see was that the
> loads were all in NORMA brass, and appeared to be fairly new.  The rounds
> all chambered normally and I ended up having to use them for slow fire
> where they preformed normally except for the mentioned failure to eject.
> The was gun is built on a Springfield mil spec. I called my friend that
> loaded the ammo, he said he'd been shooting the same ammo as he made me,
> with no difficulties and was also puzzled by the problem.  A few days
> later he called me and said he had duplicated the problem I was having
> merely by switching to an accurized Springfield that he had! He went on to
> say that he only shot the Norma based reloads in his Colt guns and never
> had a incident with them. At his suggestion I tried these same loads in my
> Colt wad gun and bingo, no hang ups! He later said he got the Springfield
> to work with the Norma brass after some modifications to the extractor
> shape and increasing the extractor tension.  I have never measured the
> Norma brass to see where the differences must be and in fact returned it
> all to my friend so as not to contaminate my brass supply.  I shoot all
> brands of cases in practice (other than Norma) and have never had the
> problem before or since!              Apparently there may be an issue
> shooting Norma 45 brass in Springfield's at least there was for me!
> Thought I'd pass this along, seems like there's always something to be
> learned!
> Regards, Phil
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Salyer" 
> To: "tim copley" 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 11:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [Bullseye-L] cycling of a 1911
>
>
>> Tim,
>> Check your extractor tension by putting an empty case in the chamber and
>> pulling the slide back slowly. The case should be held horizontal until
>> it hits the ejector. If it droops you will have stovepipes.
>> You need to verify that you have an extended ejector.
>> Dave
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "tim copley" 
>> To: "NSK Co" 
>> Cc: 
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:05 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Bullseye-L] cycling of a 1911
>>
>>
>>> So actually it was 3.6 grains.  I wondered why joe was giving me
>>> weird looks.  Either he didn't hear me correctly or I mistakenly said
>>> 2.6.  However what was actually being put in the gun was 3.6
>>> We also tried 50@Star 200gr SWC using 4.0 grains of bullseye
>>> no dice...
>>>
>>> We also tried 13lb and 10lb springs, neither worked.  I'm not sure
>>> what to do at this point.  About every 3rd or 4th round the gun
>>> stove pipes..
>>>
>>> Any advice would be appreciated!
>>>
>>> TimC
>>> phx,az
>>>
>>> The original question
>>> On 10/10/06, NSK Co.  wrote:
>>>> At 10:54 PM 10/9/2006, PK wrote:
>>>> >I have a 45 that shot bull's-eye before, with iron sights just fine,
>>>> >with
>>>> >200 grain cast over 2.6 bull's-eye. I slide mounted a red dot, now it
>>>> >will
>>>> >not cycle reliably, should I lighten the spring?
>>>> >
>>>> >PK
>>>>
>>>> PK
>>>>
>>>> Now don't take this the wrong way, but why don't you try adding some
>>>> gunpowder to the cartridge case?????  2.6 grains of BE, and you don't
>>>> understand why you are having cycling problems?  Most shooters are
>>>> using somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.6 - 4.2 grs of BE.
>>>>
>>>> The answer you seek, is not in the recoil spring.  It is the lack of
>>>> energy.
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> Just for fun, I loaded 10 cases with 2.6 grs of BE, shot the rounds
>>>> in my barrel tester; with a known good Kart barrel.  The load shot a
>>>> 10" pattern at 50 yards.  It appeared that it was not hot enough to
>>>> allow the bullet to stabilize at 50 yards.  Are you sure about the
>>>> 2.6 grs of BE?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Neil
>>>> NSK Co
>>>> 410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
>>>> mailto:nsk@nsksales.com
>>>> http://www.nsksales.com
>>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
					tim copley 	
					to Ed, NSK, Bullseye-L
						 More options	  10:19 am
(5 hours ago)
You guys (ED, Neil and all) were right!, A combination of the
extractor and a polishing
of the feed ramp. fixed the problem.

Thanks for everybody's help!  I shot it in the match this last weekend
without a single jam.  I had a blast.

TimC
phx,az

- Show quoted text -

On 10/10/06, Ed Masaki  wrote:
>         AFTER ALL THE ADVICE IN POWDER AND SPRING CHANGES YOU ARE STILL
> GETTING JAMS.  I WOULD
> START LOOKING AT THE GUN IT SELF. WHEN YOU ADDED ON THE SCOPE IT ADDED
> ON MORE WEIGHTS AND
> THAT CHANGES THE TIMING OF THE CYCLE OF THE SLIDE.  STOVE PIPE JAMS ARE
> CAUSED BY BAD MAGAZINE
> AND EXTRACTOR. THAT ALSO INCLUDES AMMO. WHEN YOU HAVE A SLIDE COMING
> BACK VERY FAST LIKE USING
> A HOT AMMO OR TOO LIGHT A RECOIL SPRING THE SLAMMING OF THE SLIDE WOULD
> CAUSE THE TOP ROUND TO
> JAR LOOSE FROM THE MAGAZINE WHICH IS WHAT A STOVE PIPE IS.  JUST A EMPTY
> SHELL GETTING CAUGHT BETWEEN THE SLIDE AND BARREL HOOD WOULD BE THE
> PROBLEM OF THE EXTRACTOR LETTING LOOSE TOO EARLY THAT THE EJECTOR HAD NO
> TIME TO KICK IT OUT. YOU HEARD FROM OTHERS HOW TO ADJUST THE EXTRACTOR.
> CHECK IT OUT.  ITS BETTER FOR A EXTRACTOR TO BE MORE FIRM THAN LOOSE.
> ALSO CHECK THE TIMING
> OF THE BARREL RELEASE FROM THE SLIDE.  THE BARREL SHOULD CLEAR THE SLIDE
> WHEN THE SLIDE IS BEING
> PULLED TO THE REAR BY HAND.  IT SHOULD NOT STICK OR CLICK.  AT THIS TIME
> I CANNOT GIVE OUT OUR
> SECRET WAYS OF DOING IT.   IF YOU LIVE NEAR DAVE SALYER OR RODDY TOYOTA
> OR BOB BROWN LET THEM
> CHECK IT OUT FOR YOU. THEY KNOW HOW TO DO IT.  TIMING IS VERY IMPORTANT.
> ED M.
>
>